Season 5 Ep. 22
The following transcript is intended to aid in your study. However, while we try to go through the transcript, our transcripts are primarily computer-generated and often contain errors. Please forgive the transcripts’ imperfections.
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[00:00:00] Tammy Uzelac Hall: How quickly do you think the Lord reaches out to help you when you're in a serious situation of trial and tribulation? Does he make you kind of wait it out? Is there a certain sort of grace period that maybe he's has in his mind, but he hasn't told us? What if I told you there was a word in today's discussion of Mosiah chapter 25 through 28 that tells us exactly the timeframe for when the Lord will come to our aid.
I think you're going to love this word, especially when I teach you the meaning of it in Hebrew. Welcome to the Sunday on Monday Study Group, a Deseret Bookshelf Plus original brought to you by LDS Living, where we take the come follow me lesson for the week, and we really dig into the scriptures together.
I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. Now if you're new to our study group, please follow the link in our description that will explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your come follow me study, just like my darling friend, Krystal. Lyons. Hello, Crystal. All right now, everyone knows the best thing about this study group is each week we're joined by two of my friends.
So it's always a little bit different. And today, oh, I'm so excited. I can't even stand it. I've been waiting to record with these ladies for a while. They're O G They they've been on before. They even have a Hollywood name. We have Jalyn and Aliah. Hello ladies.
[00:01:19] Jalyn Peterson: Hello.
[00:01:19] Aliah Hall: Hey Tam.
[00:01:21] Tammy Uzelac Hall: What's your Hollywood name?
[00:01:23] Jalyn Peterson: Ja-liah. So dubbed by Tammy Uzelac Hall.
[00:01:28] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Jaliah. Jalyn Peterson, Aliah Hall. And I cannot wait for this discussion. I've been waiting. I mean, this is gonna be, it's good stuff. The chapters we get to cover. Yeah. So good. I mean,
[00:01:40] Jalyn Peterson: not that, as opposed to the bad stuff in the Book of Mormon that we're talking about. Yeah.
[00:01:46] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah. As opposed to all the other chapters we didn't like. Okay.
[00:01:48] Aliah Hall: Less spectacular.
[00:01:50] Tammy Uzelac Hall: But these are so good. Okay. But before we move on, Aliah has some exciting news. Aliah, she shared this with us before we started, but I just, I think it's worth sharing with everybody. Tell us your news.
[00:02:02] Aliah Hall: So I accepted a position at BYU Hawaii.
So we'll be leaving for BYU Hawaii in about a week and a half. And so the next time I join you, it will be from the sunny beaches of Laie.
[00:02:16] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Hello. Oh, I'm so jealous. She assured us they're getting some, a place big enough to have a guest. So maybe all three of us can record together in Hawaii. Yeah. Yeah.
That'd be amazing.
[00:02:31] Aliah Hall: We should have like a live show and like have all of the people come and we could like sit on a stage, banter and take audience questions.
[00:02:40] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah. Like Kathy Lee and Hoda. Yes. , Hoda and Kathy Lee back in the day. Oh my gosh, I'm, we're so excited for you, Aliah. Congratulations. Thanks, Tammy.
Really awesome.
[00:02:50] Aliah Hall: Thanks, Jalyn.
[00:02:51] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay, well, if you wanna know more about my friends and read their bios and see their pictures, you can find them in our show notes, which are at LDS living.com/sunday on Monday. So friends grab your scriptures and no matter how you're studying alone with family or friends, let's dig into Mosiah chapters 25 through 28.
Okay, you two right out of the gate. The first question we always ask is as you were reading these chapters, what did the Holy Ghost teach you?
[00:03:17] Aliah Hall: So I'll go first because I'm sure Jalyn has something really reverent to say, and I have something irreverent to say.
[00:03:25] Jalyn Peterson: Jalyn never has something reverent to say, but go ahead.
[00:03:30] Aliah Hall: I just, I, whenever I read this story about Alma the Younger, I just think like, Oh, I never want a angel to appear to me because if an angel appears to you, one of two things is going to happen. You're going to be asked to do something incredibly difficult or you're in big trouble. That's one of the only two options for angel appearances and really hard or really in trouble.
[00:04:01] Jalyn Peterson: Yeah. Wow. And usually you can't speak for a few days after. Yeah. Yeah. That seems to be the experience to be the common denominator. Like you really cannot.
[00:04:14] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh my goodness. Yeah. Well, there you go. No one wants an angel to visit them.
[00:04:18] Aliah Hall: No. I mean, when you think of like. Oh, Angel posted a new walkthrough. That would be so great, no, no it would not.
[00:04:26] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay, that's fantastic. I love you, Aliah. Oh, that's a good one. Alright Jalyn, what do you got?
[00:04:33] Jalyn Peterson: So, so a couple things. So, one, the main thing being is that you're never too far gone. Right. Like, so even, you know, like when I read Alma's story, right, and we're going to get into that of how, you know, he gets to the point where all of a sudden there's people doing bad things and he tries to go to Mosiah and go, Hey, there's people in the church doing bad things.
And Mosiah's like, I'm not going to do it, but you do it. And so he has to go. You know, talk to God and, and be like, what do I do? Right. And I feel like he has the same kind of moment as Enos has in that, you know, he's like, It kind of says almost the same thing of go to thy faith has made thee whole, right?
Like your sins have been forgiving you and, and you know, thank you so much for believing in something that you've never even seen, right? And when you read about what the Lamanites were up to in, um, Enos's day, I mean, they were just, just bloodthirsty people who loved murder, who were drinking the blood of beasts and doing all of that, right?
But there was still that whole thing of God was still merciful, right? He was still sending them a ton of prophets and a ton of like, um, just so many opportunities and they were working so hard to try to get those people to repent using, using much harshness and doing all those things where it was just.
You know trying so hard and that's kind of what I think here. I mean A you're not spared just because you're a prophet's kid, right? You're you're still gonna have to go through that everyone has to gain their own personal testimony whether you get an angel You know dropped in your lap or not But that you are never too far gone like god gives so many opportunities, right?
There were so many prophets and and missionaries and You know, heaven forbid you don't get the angel in the road, but Even then, like, you can still, you are never past the reaches of God's ability to redeem you and use you in the way that he needs you to be used in his, in his plan to bring about his righteous purposes.
[00:06:58] Aliah Hall: That's beautiful. That's what I'm talking about. She brings it.
[00:07:02] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah.
[00:07:03] Aliah Hall: Every time she bring the,
[00:07:06] Jalyn Peterson: I thought that was, I, I bring the irreverent a lot of times, but
[00:07:09] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I just like how you said multiple times, you're never too far gone. Yeah. And we're gonna see some verses of scripture that really would, in fact, one in particular we'll get to that would even make you think Mm.
Really though, even this guy Yeah, I know. Are you sure? I know. So I, I am grateful that you pointed that out. This is gonna be a really wonderful discussion. We've covered these chapters. These are some of the most well-known chapters in the Book of Mormon. The story about Alma, the younger and everything that happened.
And I couldn't be more honored to discuss these stories than with you two to get your perspective and your insights on these chapters. And so I'm really looking forward to this discussion. I told the two of them that this really will be as if we're just truly sitting around a kitchen table sharing our thoughts about these chapters.
There's so much. Each. And there's so much to learn and know and then apply to our lives. And so we are going to start doing that in the next segment.
Segment 2
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[00:08:14] Tammy Uzelac Hall: So everybody go to your map, the one that we've been drawing, and I want you to look at your map because we are now in Zarahemla. That's what you want to know. It's where all of this is taking place. And as we're in Zarahemla, we're going to go to Mosiah chapter 25. Everybody's there. And I think this is really cool because we have this idea.
We, we left off with this last week in Mosiah chapter 24 verse 25. It talks about how everyone arrived in the land of Zarahemla and King Mosiah did also receive them with joy. That seems to be King Mosiah's MO. He receives everybody with joy. He is so happy to have anybody that wants to come and live with them and live in peace.
And so in Mosiah chapter 25, now they are living in joy. They're having a wonderful experience. And we jump into this story where now all of the records can finally be read to remember how all the stories along that we've studied where it says we can interpret what we know someone that can. And so these two groups of people have now come in with records, with a stone, with plates, with stories that they want to have heard and read.
And they start to read these stories. And then we get to verses 7 through 11. And I was just struck by these verses, by the way the people reacted to the stories that were told. So Jalynn, will you please read verses 7 and 8?
[00:09:35] Jalyn Peterson: And now when Mosiah had made an end of reading the records, his people who tarried in the land were struck with wonder and amazement.
For they knew not what to think, for when they beheld those that had been delivered out of bondage, they were filled with exceedingly great joy.
[00:09:49] Tammy Uzelac Hall: So right here, if you look up above, you're going to see in verse two, we want to mark the word mulek. We've talked about that back in Omni in verse five, they're going to read the records of Zenith.
And look back at your map. Zenif was a long time ago. And then in verse six, they're going to read the records of Alma and his people. So there's a lot of records here that they're going to get. And now as they're reading these records, we have their reactions in verses nine through 11. So Jalyn, will you continue to read?
And then I want to get your guys's thoughts on these verses. Sure.
[00:10:21] Jalyn Peterson: And again, when they thought of their brethren who had been slain by the Lamanites, they were filled with sorrow and even shed many tears of sorrow. And again, when they thought of the immediate goodness of God and his power in delivering Alma and his brethren out of the hands of the Lamanites and of bondage, they did raise their voices and give thanks to God.
And again, when they thought upon the Lamanites who were their brethren, of their sinful and polluted state, they were filled with pain and anguish for the willful of their souls.
[00:10:48] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. Tell me a little bit about your thoughts and how the people are feeling.
[00:10:53] Jalyn Peterson: Well, you get a little bit of like emotional whiplash of like, you know of I I just think the first of verse eight sums It up.
They knew not what to think right there There's all this time where they're like, oh how great that the lord delivered these people out of bondage, right? They were in bondage, but then when they think about All the brethren that they've lost, right? People who they probably they never knew, right? They're filled with sorrow.
And then they're even filled with sorrow over not just their brethren, but their enemies, the Lamanites, and how sinful they've become, right? So they're, they're so happy that these people have been delivered from bondage, but then again, they're like, Oh man, it's to me, it's just that opposition in all things.
And, you know, and a lot of times it's in the exact same degree, right? As happy and as good as God is, is sometimes as evil and wicked as the other side is that, that, you know, it kind of shows us the opposition of all things. Yeah.
[00:11:53] Aliah Hall: When I was reading this, I was kind of pondering both like backwards and forward. So I was thinking of like when the Book of Mormon was being translated, it was published and the saints were getting it. How marvelous that must have been to get like another record, you know, that's right on the front of the Book of Mormon, another. Testament of Jesus Christ, like how miraculous, like for all those thousands of years, like it was just the Bible, not just the Bible, but it was the Bible alone.
And then to get another record of Jesus Christ, another record of God's dealings with, with his people, just how astonishing that must have been for the early saints and for eagle people. Um, reading the Book of Mormon or even on my mission, like when we would, you know, give a challenge to read the Book of Mormon or, you know, give people, you know, a Book of Mormon, like the awe and the wonder of like, Oh, like it wasn't just in Jerusalem.
It wasn't just this one part of the world and this one people that, that God loves all of these people and has spoken to them and blessed them and all of, all of that, like just the wonder and awe of it. And then I kind of pondered forward, or like, we know that we will also get more records. You know, that we, we have the Bible and the book of Mormon and the Pearl of Great Price and Doctrine and Covenants, but we will continue to get not only revelation, but records of other people as time goes by. And like how amazing and wondrous that will be as we continue to hear about God's dealings with people.
[00:13:46] Tammy Uzelac Hall: All of those children. Wow. And then we, when we get to hear those records read, we react the same way. Like, Aliah! Yeah,
[00:13:56] Jalyn Peterson: I'd never thought of that either. I, I didn't think of that either, but you're right.
Like, how cool would that be when we're, when we get to hear it read?
[00:14:06] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, when they say I can only write one one hundredth of a part. Yeah. Right. I'm not good with the math, but I know that's not a lot.
[00:14:13] Aliah Hall: No. It's a lot. There's a lot of records
[00:14:18] Tammy Uzelac Hall: okay. Now this really, this really strikes me though, because now I'm thinking I don't even react.
I don't know that I react that way when I read the Book of Mormon. Bible. I think I have just read these stories. Like that, that they're just stories as opposed to genealogy. These are real life, either the Book of Mormon's real or not, right? These stories really did happen or somebody wrote it just to, it's like a parable.
And I'm having this moment in my heart where I'm like, Oh my gosh, what I'm reading is true.
[00:14:53] Jalyn Peterson: No. And I, I'm just, when you say that, I'm like, ah, I hope we get the women's stories and we get some of the women's stories. That's what I want.
[00:15:01] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, we will. We will definitely get more. Wow. Yeah, we will.
[00:15:04] Jalyn Peterson: We will.
[00:15:05] Tammy Uzelac Hall: What a great perspective for these verses. Yeah, that's awesome. Mm hmm. Thank you. Okay. So we have all these stories, you know, and, and in the rest of this chapter we get where Alma now has a chance to speak to the people.
And the first thing he does is preach Christ. That's in verses 14 and 15. He takes the opportunity to preach them about repentance and faith on the Lord. And then we love in verses 16 and 17 that the people of limb high finally get to get baptized. They've been waiting. Remember back in the, when they were in the land and they met out, they were like, can we get baptized?
And I'm like, no, I can't do that for you. Now they finally get to get baptized. It's so exciting. And they enter into a covenant. Can we talk about how cool,
[00:15:47] Jalyn Peterson: um, Mosiah is in that. You know, he is not some egotistical king who like, I mean, these people show up and he's just like, yeah, you're a prophet. Go do your thing.
Like he, he's very much, you know, and he's been handed the record. Um, because there was no one else, you know, after Omni, right, to give the record to, but, um, so, you know, like, I mean, I just, what a humble leader, right, that would, could just say, like, no, you know, like, you go, go teach everybody all this stuff, like, we don't know, like, To have the wisdom and the, the humility to really recognize that is just, I think, phenomenal.
[00:16:35] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh yeah, absolutely. In fact, we'll read this in a week or two, but you will love this verse about Mosiah just since you brought it up. We have to look at it and it's in Mosiah chapter 29, verse 40. You'll love this, Jill Lynn. Look at that verse right there. It's what they, it's about Mosiah before he dies.
It's how the people feel about him.
[00:16:53] Jalyn Peterson: And they did wax strong in love towards Mosiah, yea, they did esteem him more than any other man, for they did not look upon him as a tyrant, who was seeking for gain, yea, for that looser, lucre money, which doth corrupt the soul, for he had not exacted riches of them, neither had he delighted in the shedding of blood, but he had established peace in the land, and he had granted unto his people that they should be delivered from all manner of bondage, Therefore, they did esteem him, yea, exceedingly beyond measure.
Isn't that cool? Boy, where's the Mosiah of the worlds to run for office now? Honestly. Amen. Yeah. That's, that's amazing. That's
[00:17:31] Tammy Uzelac Hall: awesome. It is so cool. I love that verse about him and he's so phenomenal because he does, like you said, he gives all of the power over to Alma. And so in fact, in the next segment, we're going to talk about that and we're going to find out what he allows Alma to do next.
Segment 3
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[00:17:56] Tammy Uzelac Hall: We're in Mosiah chapter 26, and we have a bit of an issue. Aliah, can you please read for us Mosiah chapter 26 verses one through three.
[00:18:04] Aliah Hall: And now it came to pass that there were many in the rising generation that could not understand the word of King Benjamin, being little children at the time he spake unto his people. And they did not believe the traditions of their father. And they did not believe what had been said concerning the resurrection of the dead. Neither did they believe concerning the coming of Christ. And now because of their Unbelief. They could not understand the word of God and their hearts were hardened.
[00:18:33] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. Now the timeframe right here, at first when I read this, I'm like, well, it's probably because it's been like a couple hundred years and there's all this time that's passed. And Aliah, I love that you're shaking your head no. How much time do you know? How much time has passed roughly?
[00:18:48] Aliah Hall: This one generation is just the children of their dads.
[00:18:52] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Less than 50 years. Yeah. Like approximately 30 to 40 years. That is all that's passed. And so it happened so fast.
[00:18:59] Jalyn Peterson: Well, and that's why, you know, when you were saying like We only have one one hundredth of the record, right? But how crucial this one one hundredth must be that this is what we have and um, I I feel like it is so right.
They're not just stories It's like such a warning for us because how many of the rising generation now Don't believe the tradition of organized religion or you know, any of those things and and you know So many parents I think go through this whole thing of you know you have kids that don't believe that aren't believers and and how no parent really escapes kind of the The hardness of that, right?
Like nobody gets out of that. In fact, you'll read verse four. It's what you just said. And they would not be baptized, neither would they join the church and they were a separate people as to their faith and remain so ever after, even in their carnal and sinful state for they would not call upon the Lord, their God.
Thank you. And even though they're not, it says in the next one, they're not even half so numerous of the people of God, but because even within the people of God there's dissensions, right, that it ends up being a way bigger problem. I've just felt this more and more lately about how much You know that when they were announcing did award announcements this week in sacrament meeting like every announcement was there's this youth activity.
There's this youth fireside. There's this youth leader training. There's this youth and and I'm like, yeah, like we really need to pour as much faith and goodness and love into them, um, to to be able to kind of withstand not even just them. But then we in the church, you know, ourselves just need to be so cool.
It's vigilant that we're not going to let people in one generation dwindle away, um, in unbelief because they didn't know or they didn't, they didn't feel it. It's not just about knowing, right? It's about religion has to be personal and they have to feel the goodness of God because even if they don't want to go to organize religion, it says they wouldn't even call upon the Lord, their God, right?
So they don't even believe that far, right? So, um, yeah. It just, it just, you know, I think this is so crucial for, for our day is to, you know, a warning tell.
[00:21:27] Aliah Hall: Well, and I think to go along with that, like, and this might be a little bit of wordplay, but I think it's been on my mind quite a bit and, um, And it showed up in, like, the notes that I was writing in my scriptures as well.
Because here they're saying, like, and they did not believe in the traditions of their fathers. But I think in our day and possibly in their day, like, there's a difference between the traditions of our father and our state. And sometimes those two things get conflated. And so kids are like, this is just a tradition.
Like these are the traditions of our fathers. It's not faith. It's not religion. It's just, Oh, we've always, we came across the plains. We've always lived here. We always go to church. This is a tradition. It's not a faith. So like they're, they don't grow a testimony. They don't develop a testimony. 'cause it's not a, it's not a faith or religious, um, activity.
Um, wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're just participating in the tradition of their father, which happens to be our religion, but it's a tradition for them. That can be easily like, well, I don't want to do that tradition anymore.
[00:22:47] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah.
[00:22:47] Aliah Hall: Instead of it's not like, oh, I don't believe anymore. It's like, I don't want to do that tradition anymore. My mom always made him for Christmas and I don't really like him. So I'm going to make enchiladas. Right.
[00:23:00] Tammy Uzelac Hall: How do, okay. So let me ask you this. How do we fix that then? How do we help defer between tradition and faith? Well, I, well, I think
[00:23:07] Aliah Hall: it's kind of what Jalyn was saying is like, It, it has to be conversion, like it has to be a conversion to the gospel of Jesus Christ, not to the traditions or culture of the church, but an actual, um, building a testimony of the gospel, building a testimony.
Of, um, your relationship with, with God and of the atonement of Jesus Christ and those fundamentals of the gospel and not a push towards like, this is what we do because we are these people, because that is a tradition. That's not a faith practice.
[00:23:49] Jalyn Peterson: And I think that's why there is so much emphasis, um, on, um, Receiving personal revelation, you know, President Nelson recently said that it's going to be impossible to spiritually survive unless you have that personal revelation for yourself, right? Um, and so, um, and Joseph Smith said, you know, you could, if you could just look into eternity for five minutes. You would have way more knowledge than if you read every single subject and on that, right? It has to be experiential. It has to be something that, um, we teach kids to pray, and how the Lord communicates with them, how they feel the Spirit. And they, they have, if they don't have those experiences for themselves, it doesn't work. The knowledge, you know, could just be the tradition. It has to be to a point where they've actually had the experience of knowing that Heavenly Father answers their prayers, and that here's how Heavenly Father speaks to them, and that, you know, because they have the gift of the Holy Ghost, they are entitled to that, that direction in their lives, and that they know where to go to seek for it. Instead of just relying upon, um, you know, mom and dad or the traditions of church or, or any of that. It has to be, they have to have their own personal experiences of it.
[00:25:18] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. So let me ask you this then, because the three of us definitely started out. Everyone does in the church. You start out with the traditions. Mm-Hmm. . Where did it change for you? When did it go from tradition to faith? Do you have a moment?
[00:25:32] Aliah Hall: I didn't start out with tradition because my parents are converts.
[00:25:35] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, that's right. You did it. Okay. That's right. Yeah. Tell me your converting moment then. What was your moment where it, it was faith then? I don't think it was a moment.
[00:25:46] Aliah Hall: And I think that that's, I think that's where it, I think we manufacture emotional experiences for our kids. So like at girls camp or testimony meetings or, um, fire sites, we're manufacturing more emotional experiences. experience. Not necessarily a spiritual experience. And so I remember being, I don't know, like under eight or maybe nine, like under nine.
And we lived really close to the chapel. Um, and we live really close to the chapel now and we still drive to church. We drove to church, even though we live really close to the chapel that day. Um, But my dad would be like, if you're not in the car, you have to walk to church, which was it. It was like maybe a block and a half before a seven year old.
That was really far. I'm a little bit scared. And so I remember being like seven, eight years old, maybe. And I couldn't find my like Sunday shoe. And I was like stressed because I'm like, my dad's going to leave. I'm going to have to walk to church alone because I can't find my shoes or like I'm going to get left at home by myself.
I don't know. Like I was very upset about it. And I remember, like, going to my, like, I looked all around, I couldn't find it, I remember kneeling down, and being like, Heavenly Father, I really want to go to church with my family. I don't want to have to walk by myself, or I don't want to miss church, like, can you please just help me find my shoes?
And like, I remember standing up and thinking, like, oh, they're under the magazine rack by the black back door, the sliding glass door in the back. And like, I got up, and I walked there, and that's exactly where they were. And I was like. astonished like as a, you know, even as like they were, we were reading before, you know, like they were reading the record.
Other people were astonished. Like, I was a sucker. Like, oh my gosh, God knows where my shoes are. You bet. And it wasn't like that experience, but like little experiences that had nothing to do with my parents, nothing to do with church, nothing to do with any of that. It was just my relationship with God that I was like, Oh, that's when I became converted when I took it upon myself to engage and continue to engage.
[00:28:13] Jalyn Peterson: But for me, like to your point, like I am not that, you know, person who has these big huge moments, right? That you can look to, right? Um, and for me it is that line upon line, precept upon precept of that we shouldn't expect that you get. Like, I don't get a testimony of every facet of the, of the gospel in one fell swoop.
There's still, my testimony still grows to this day over different, um, issues and different things that I, I come across, right? And so, but for me, the way. The only way you can do that right to get to that point is you still have to study it out in your mind and ponder it. You still have to pray about it, right?
So there are still, you know, I guess we could call them traditions, but it is obedience. to those things that we know are going to be those faith building things. And there are times when, I think everyone goes through this in your life, right? Where you're, you don't feel like you're getting answers to your prayers.
Like, the prayer is hitting the ceiling, and that's as far as it's going. Um, yeah, and you don't really, you're not, you know, You're not feeling that. And so in those times, it is just relying upon that. You have to create the muscle memory of like, yeah, but I study my scriptures and I pray and I have to, you know, I'm a logical person.
I'm very like in my head about stuff. And so for me, I know I can, you know, that's an easy place for me to start. I'm not necessarily fill it in my heart. Like that takes a little bit more for me, but I have to really. You know, my parents helped create that tradition and that muscle memory where I knew This is how I get the answers.
Mm-Hmm. . This is how I get those, those experiences for myself. Yeah. Like Aliah knew to go pray. Right? Like, so there are those things where you just kind of, sometimes you have to fall back on that because that's all that's gonna take you through for a bit.
[00:30:14] Aliah Hall: Well, and I think if you don't know those things and you don't even know how to access that Mm-Hmm.
And so it's important . To teach our children and to . , you know, model it for them and to have those that home. Programming that that's important and those kind of show up as tradition. But if we were like, Oh, we're doing this because it is our tradition, as opposed to they're doing this as a gateway for, you know,
[00:30:42] Jalyn Peterson: yeah, my parents didn't really, I mean, You know, they were raised in emotionally stunted environments.
And so we weren't like this emoting touchy filly kind of family. Right. And so I think as parents, it's better to, you know, you're praying, but like when you recognize a kid is feeling the spirit, you point out like, that's the spirit, like that's what it feels like. Or when they're having those emotion, you can be like, that's what that feels like.
Not just like. We pray just because it's the tradition like Aliah said, but that you you have them recognize when that is like the Spirit speaking to them and and and it's why we're taught to keep you know Prayer journals and keep records like these people all kept records. I'm always like I Just want my journals to be burned when I go there just for me.
I don't want people to read them, right? But you know how how? you know Uh, President Nelson has encouraged us to keep prayer journals, to keep those inspirational moments because there are those times when we're just going to need to rely back on our own personal revelation to get us through.
[00:31:52] Tammy Uzelac Hall: You know, my, my mind is right now flooded with this. I have so many thoughts because you perfectly in one sentence, I'm dying because you summed up a year's worth of seminary teacher training. When you said, if they are filling the spirit, be sure to point that out. I mean, that's it right there. That is how we move from tradition to faith or from tradition to testimony. You know, as a seminary teacher, we were to point those moments out and then we were to issue a challenge at the end of each lesson. We teach the principle and then give the application. The silhouette of the lesson, like what's the point? And then Aliah, Um, you said to teach, and that is exactly what we do in primary. I may have been in primary for the last couple of years. All I did was teach to build this foundation, but then you teachers of the youth out there, Oh, now, now it's your turn to help them with the teachings part. That's a return tradition to testimony. And then you issue these challenges and then let them use their agency to go from tradition to testimony.
Um, Aliah, I'm going back to years ago when you taught us about the word faith crisis. Um, Well, you said, I don't think it's a faith crisis. I think we need to consider that it's the wilderness and I have not stopped studying that word because there's over 500 references for that word in scripture and everyone's going into the wilderness. They're dwelling in the wilderness and eventually they'll come out of the wilderness and, and everybody in the wilderness was led by the hand of God. But one thing that struck me was when you said the problem with people that we love who were, first of all, every one of us are in the wilderness. But when we think someone's having a faith crisis, the thing we're the most afraid of is not that the person will get lost in the wilderness, it's that it might make us feel uncomfortable when things don't turn out like we think they should, when we, when we leave them to their own.
Search and rescue, like they have to actually try the principle of the gospel, but what if it doesn't work? Okay. So what I'll do is I'll just make sure it does. I'm going to give you all the answers because I'm thinking about parenting styles and how we just don't want them to have an uncomfortable moment.
So let me just tell you what it's going to feel like or what it should look like and then we'll let it be. And I remember as a kid growing up, my dad's answer to everything was, we'll figure it out. I don't know. What are you, what are you going to do? You better figure it out. You got it. And it used to make me so mad because I'm like, dad, just tell me what to do.
And he, he didn't. And I always, and now I'm laughing because I did have to figure it out. I had to get a testimony of the Book of Mormon for myself. I had to pray and every little facet. And then there's still things I'm still trying to figure out, but that's okay. I think that's like, I did all the traditions since birth, all of them.
And I love that you've just said that because none of the traditions necessarily have saved me, but figuring it out along the way and having sort of that foundation of a place where I could go and learn how to do that. Made a huge difference. Now I'm kind of thinking of these people because there's all these believers and I wonder if any of them were just not letting the kids figure it out.
I don't know. Like my brain is just swirling with all of this. Agency is a tough thing. It's a tough
[00:35:04] Jalyn Peterson: parent to allow kids to have agency, right?
[00:35:07] Tammy Uzelac Hall: A prophet's like, I hope my kid figures it out. I'm going to pray he does. Yes. That's what I mean.
[00:35:14] Aliah Hall: But I think you think of like their father. So like Mulek and Zenith and all these records are for people coming out of the wilderness. Yeah. Yeah. After hundreds of years, multiple generations, and they came out of the wilderness and they're like, Oh no, my kids are never going into the wilderness. Like I will make sure they never go into the wilderness. Yeah. And their kids were like, heck no, I'm going right to that wilderness, you know,
[00:35:42] Tammy Uzelac Hall: and all the people that spent time in the wilderness that came out of the wilderness.
are now so strong spiritually that they wanted to make a covenant with God. They wanted to commit to him because they saw his hand in their lives. And so I love that you taught us that Aliah, like it does make us uncomfortable when our kids are in the wilderness and look at all the good that came from it.
[00:36:04] Aliah Hall: That's how we got there. That's how we got where we were is by going through our own wilderness, but then we get afraid when our kids are going through wilderness, not recognizing that, like that is part of it. Like that is the one consistent story in all of scripture, all of it, all of canon. That is the one consistent story.
You will be here. God will say, you need to be over here and you will have to pass through a wilderness. That's the one consistent story.
[00:36:33] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah.
[00:36:34] Aliah Hall: And if that's the one consistent story, then that says something about what we're doing here. We are here.
[00:36:40] Jalyn Peterson: I mean, I'm not, I'm back and forth. I'm going in and out of that wilderness. I'm 40 years. I'm 40 years.
[00:36:46] Aliah Hall: I've been like, yeah, actually you're not going to leave the wilderness, right?
[00:36:50] Tammy Uzelac Hall: But look at this. In one generation's time, we have a group of kids who didn't necessarily go in the wilderness. And so. They're having their own wilderness experience in Zarahemla and that's making everybody uncomfortable.
And in the next segment, we'll find out the good that came from it.
Segment 4
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[00:37:16] Tammy Uzelac Hall: We are still in Mosiah chapter 26. And before we dive into more of this awesome discussion, we just had, I want to tell you all that I was called to repentance. I had a moment where the spirit taught me something I needed to learn. And it stems from a discussion we had a couple of weeks ago out the word blessed, because I pointed out.
That it's such a hard word for me when people say I was so blessed because I immediately assume, well, what about everybody else who's not blessed then? Is that what you're saying? That God loves you more and blessed you with whatever and is not blessing anyone. And for years I struggled with that word.
And then we get into Mosiah chapter 26. Now, the people, the next generation, they don't want to join the church. They don't want to be baptized. And so they bring them to Alma and I was like, I don't know what to do with these people. So he takes them to Mosiah the king and Mosiah is like, yeah, not my jurisdiction.
I'm going to let you decide what to do. You are the high priest. And it's beautiful how in Mosiah chapter 26 Alma is troubled. So he goes and inquires of the Lord what he should do concerning these people. Like how do we handle the situation? And the Lord speaks to him. So look at Mosiah chapter 26, verse 14, and it's going to say Alma poured out his whole soul to God.
And then the voice of the Lord comes to Alma. Now grab a highlighter and scan your eyes through verses 15 through 19 and highlight every time you see the word blessed. And this is where I had my come to Jesus moment. And I was studying these words and I was out walking one morning and the spirit said to me, and I loved this.
What if, Tam, when we say we're so blessed, what we're really doing is just giving credit to God? And then I was like, I am so blessed. That is how I want to start using the word and thinking about it. When people say I'm so blessed, rather than being snarky about it, I just want to think they're just giving credit to God for all the goodness that they have.
They're not saying they're more blessed than anybody else. And so I'm resurrecting that word. I think using it, let's use it often. I don't think we use it enough because I really do think it's like when sports people, you know, point when they make a touchdown and point to the heavens, I think that's their way of saying blessed.
I'm so blessed that I made that touchdown, but it was God that helped me do it. So that is my call to repentance. I now love that word. We're so blessed. And the people were so blessed with Alma, except there's one more problem going on. Let's turn to Mosiah chapter 27, because it's not going well. As blessed as they are, we still have people who are just making it difficult for the believers.
So, Jalyn, will you please read Mosiah chapter 27, verse two?
[00:39:46] Jalyn Peterson: Sure. And it came to pass that King Mosiah sent a proclamation throughout the land round about that there should not any unbeliever persecute any of those who belong to the church of God.
[00:39:56] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. That's the first thing we've got going on. So I put a number one by verse two.
So none of the unbelievers can persecute the people who belong to the church of God. But then we have a second scenario and it's verses three through five. Aliah, will you read that for us please?
[00:40:10] Aliah Hall: And there was a strict commandment throughout the church that there should be no persecution among them, that there should be an equality among all men, that they should let no pride nor haughtiness.
Disturb their peace that every man should esteem his vaporize himself, laboring with their own hands for their support and all their priests and teachers should labor with their own hands for their support. In all cases, save it. Were in sickness or in much want, and in doing these things, they abounded in the grace of God.
[00:40:42] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. There's situation two. We have the unbelievers in verse one, but in verse two he's saying, and now among all of you that are believers, let's not have any persecutions among you guys. Like, let's all have peace. So he's sort of laying down this decree in the land among all the people, and the people start to prosper in verse seven.
And then we get the classic verse in eight. Here we go. I'll read that. Now, the sons of Mosiah were numbered among the unbelievers and also one of the sons of Alma who was numbered among them. He being called Alma after his father, nevertheless, he became a very wicked and idolatrous man. And he was a man of many words.
And did speak much flattery to the people. Therefore, he led many of the people to do after the manner of his iniquities. And then verse nine says he became a great hinderment to the prosperity of the church of God, stealing away the hearts of the people, causing much dissension among the people, giving a chance for the enemy of God to exercise his power over them.
And as the story goes, an angel of the Lord appears to them. And as Ali has taught us, You know, nobody wants an angel. Okay. Now, coming off the discussion we had in the last segment, I think this is so awesome because I want us to look at what the angel had to say to Alma, the younger and the sons of Mosiah.
So in verse 12. He speaks to them, but they don't understand them. So that's try number one. So then in verse 13, we have nevertheless, he cried again. So now the angel is going to say the same thing a second time, and here's what he has to say. And so let's each take a turn and we're just going to read verses 13 through 16 and we'll go to Lynn, Aliah, and then me.
And as you read these verses, I want you guys to underline or mark what strikes you with what the angel of all the things the angel could say to these young boys. I want you to mark what stands out to you.
[00:42:33] Jalyn Peterson: Nevertheless, he cried again, saying, Alma, arise and stand forth for why persecute us thou the church of God for the Lord hath said, this is my church and I will establish it and nothing shall overthrow it. Save it is the transgression of my people.
[00:42:49] Aliah Hall: And again, the angel said, behold, the Lord hath heard the prayers of his people and also the prayers of his servant Alma, who is life bottle for he has prayed with much faith concerning thee. Thou might be brought to the knowledge of the truth. Therefore, for this purpose, have I come to convince the of the power and authority of God that the prayers of his servant might be answered according to their faint.
[00:43:16] Tammy Uzelac Hall: And now behold, can you dispute the power of God for behold? Dot not my voice. Shake the earth And can you not also behold me before you and I am sent from God?
[00:43:29] Jalyn Peterson: Now I say un to thee. Go and remember the captivity of the Fathers in the land of heal. And in the land of Nephi. And remember how great things he has done for them, for they were in bondage, and he has delivered them.
And now I say unto thee, Alma, go thy way, and seek to destroy the church no more, that their prayers may be answered, and this, even if that wilt of thyself be cast off.
[00:43:51] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. What did you guys mark?
[00:43:54] Aliah Hall: I think the part that is, um, not in this same context, but it's so powerful for me is in the part that I read where it says like, behold, the Lord hath heard the prayers of his people and also the prayers of his servant, Mama, who is your father.
I remember when Addie and I were in the hospital, my son was in the hospital, was in the NICU for 10 and a half months. Um, as you ladies know, um, and I every day was terrified and not for his spirituality, but for his, like his life or his mortality, um, just terrified. And, uh, I don't know that I did any formal praying and then I'm sure I probably did, but I don't remember doing any formal praying.
Um, I just remember being like in a constant state of prayer. And, like, worry and I remember feeling really profoundly and not just then, but over and over again, the spirit telling me, like, before he was yours, he was mine. Like, you don't, you don't care about him more than I do, you know? And I think sometimes as parents, at least, we think, like, it's all on, uh, like, we've got to keep these kids straight.
We got to make sure they do the right thing. We got to teach them, you know, spirituality, religion, traditions. All of those things don't want them to fall off the path. And there are scriptures that talk about that. But there are also scriptures and doctrine that like, these are his kids. We're just borrowing them.
They're actually our siblings. You know, they're his kids. And I think this is a testimony of that, that like, Heavenly Father loved Alma the Younger very much. That was his child. And the angel came down and he loves Alma, the, the elder as well. And he's like, my son, he's prayed about his son. And so I'm going to send an angel because I care about all of you because you are my children.
You're my children. I care about you to the point where I will send you an angel.
[00:46:12] Jalyn Peterson: And even if, even if, you know, he, the angel says like he's being sent because of Alma's faith. And even if. Even if Alma the Younger wants to, you know, keep carrying on, that's fine. You can cast yourself off, but I'm coming so that, that, you know, that the, this is the Lord's church and nothing's going to overthrow that purpose.
And because of the righteousness of your church. Of your father, but I don't know. I just hesitate with this because I'm like you can't I mean there's so many parents who are very incredibly righteous Right who I'm sure have prayed and prayed and prayed for their kid to have an alma the younger experience Um, and they don't get that right so they don't get that yet yet.
Yeah So yeah, exactly right in the due time of the lord, right? Everything is in the due time of the lord We don't we don't That's the thing of, of we just have to have enough faith as parents that, you know, despite your prayers and how righteous you are in, in praying for your kid, um, the ways of God are only known to the ways of God and was a very, seems like a very precarious time in the church in that you had all these, um, believers, you know, so much so that, that They had to make a proclamation through the land, and it sounds like even the people in the church were, you know, maybe people were getting paid to preach, I don't know, but it sounds like, hey, we're not even gonna pay the preachers anymore, like, they have to support themselves.
No one's above anybody here, we're all gonna be, you know, we're all of equal status. It clearly was a time in the church that required that much. You know, force to come down and be like, Alma, you, if you want to be cast off, that's great, but God's going to save the church regardless. So if you want to keep doing it, go ahead.
But you know, you, you need to stop.
[00:48:14] Aliah Hall: And I think that part of that is like, it's not that I'm going to save the church, I'm going to save all of these other, like, I'm not going to let you drowned all the other, my other kids. Yes. Oh, so good. Yeah. I don't know, I mean, maybe God really cares about the church, but I think he cares about his children. Yeah. And he's like, I'm not going to let you drown my other kids, um, in the process, you know, and, and I don't think it, like, it says that like Alma the Elder was praying for Alma the Younger. So that's a parent child relationship. And it also says like, all these people in the church. And so it's not just parent child.
It's like your siblings, your neighbors, your friends, your, you know, strangers, everybody was praying for these, these young boys, you know? And so it, I think that parent child relationship is really, um, important and sometimes can be really hard, but I think sibling, I'm not worried about my kids yet for the most part, but I worry about my sibling.
I worry about some of my friends. I worry about some of my neighbors, you know, and so I think when we're thinking about that relationship between God and his children that encompasses all of us, not just our children, not just our parents, not just our relatives, but like how we treat everyone in our sphere of influence is how this is his child, you know, and, and when they are faltering or when they are in the wilderness or when they are rebelling or whatever. He is concerned not because he's concerned for the church with us, but because he's concerned for his children and we are all his children.
[00:50:08] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah. Well, and what struck me as we were reading this, and again, today when I was preparing, this hit me again, verse 16, now I say unto thee, go and remember the captivity of thy fathers in the land of Helam and in the land of Nephi and remember how great things he has done for them.
And that's what we started with. That goes clear back to when everybody reacted. They were astonished. They cried. They were excited and joy. I mean, that's. That's that. He's like, it hasn't been that long Alma. Remember we read all the records. You were there. You felt that you knew what it was like when everyone was so excited because we read their wilderness experience and we know what God can do for people in the wilderness.
So let me be clear with you, Alma, the younger that God can do if he did it for those people, he can do it now because he says, uh, can you dispute the power of God for behold, that's not my voice shake. He goes, I am sent from God to convince you of that. And then that's how he does it. Remember, it's been done before.
And I think the beauty in this is that sometimes we underestimate the power of our own wilderness stories. I am a big fan. I'm a big proponent. People know this. When I go and speak to teenagers, I tell them my wilderness experience. I tell them about the time that I had to go see my bishop. I don't say what I did, but they know that I know.
How to repent. And I sometimes think there's a disconnect because we're afraid to tell that story to youth. Like, Oh, I don't want to even know I had to go see my Bishop. No, you Alma's very clear. In fact, he'll tell us he had to go see or take care of his sins and the ammo. The younger will continue to tell his story throughout the book of Alma.
And I think when we can say, remember that time I told you That you can be forgiven. Like to be able to draw on that as a parent is powerful. I think that goes back from being now instead of tradition because I don't, repentance isn't tradition. It is a doctrinal principle. And so when we can teach that, we can teach about our wilderness moments and say, let me tell you what God did for me in the wilderness.
I think those are the moments that kids today go, Oh, they get it. I just think this is really cool. I was struck all day with what the, of all the things the angel could say. He ends with that. I don't know. And then maybe, maybe, maybe Trek isn't such a bad thing. Like, I know we, we always make fun of it, but like, remember all the miracles that happened. Oh
yeah. Yeah.
[00:52:33] Jalyn Peterson: But, you know, I mean, hey, if we could learn by, by, if I could learn by someone else's wilderness story, I would, you know, I would love to do that as opposed to me going back in there numerous times, right? But some of us like me have to just do it the hard way. But, but even like, you know, before this too, like, When they, the scriptures that they brought, right?
Like often they go back, remember what the Lord did for Moses? Remember when they were released? But like you said, like this is more recent. This is stuff that like, we're not just talking about the tradition of Moses. And that story that maybe you don't even believe, you know, from scriptures like, you know, this, yeah, you know what happened.
Yeah. So you're right to the point of pioneers, like that is, we're like a generation away from that. We're not that far away from that to remember how. They were brought out of bondage as well. So yeah,
[00:53:33] Tammy Uzelac Hall: for kids to know their dad or leaders had a wilderness experience. Wow.
[00:53:37] Jalyn Peterson: Yeah,
[00:53:38] Tammy Uzelac Hall: absolutely.
[00:53:39] Jalyn Peterson: Absolutely. And
[00:53:39] Aliah Hall: there's this great quote that says you can get knowledge from other people's knowledge, but you cannot become wise from other people's wisdom. Ooh, that's good. If somebody tells you something that you can. Know that that happened, but wisdom isn't knowledge. You can't become wise from somebody else's wisdom. Yes. So you can get knowledge from somebody else's knowledge. But you cannot become wise from somebody else's wisdom.
[00:54:08] Tammy Uzelac Hall: And if people, if kids can know that repentance works because someone told them, they're probably more likely than to try it out on their own to figure it out.
[00:54:17] Aliah Hall: And that's where they get wisdom. Yes. It's one thing to know, but it's another thing to apply
and to do.
[00:54:23] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, that's good. Okay. Then let's do this. Then in the next story, we're going to read Alma the Younger's experience and about his wilderness moment where he was there for two days and two nights, and we'll do that next.
Segment 5
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[00:54:47] Tammy Uzelac Hall: We are back in Mosiah chapter 27, and here is the experience. So Alma the Younger and the sons of Mosiah, they are on the ground. They have this moment and the sons of Mosiah come to, but Alma the Younger doesn't, and he actually becomes dumb and he couldn't even open his mouth. He became weak. That's what verse 19 tells us.
And so the sons of Mosiah carry him to his father and he brings him. And then they begin to fast and to pray in verse 22, that the Lord would open the mouth of Alma, that he could speak and that his limbs received their strength. And then in verse 23, it tells us that they fast and prayed for two days and two nights.
And sure enough, at the end, Alma does receive his strength and he's able to speak. And here's what he has to say to us. Bracket off versus 24. Oh my goodness. All the way, probably, pretty much to the end. These are Alma's words and this is what he has to teach us about his experience when he could not speak.
So, lady, I asked the ladies to look over these verses. Is there anything that stood out to you specifically about what Alma the younger had to say about his, about his wilderness moment?
[00:55:56] Aliah Hall: For me, it, when I read this, the, the part that always hurts my heart, I think it was in 29. Where he says, my soul is wracked with eternal torment. And I just, I think that I, like, I don't even know that I could put words to it, but I feel like I may have felt, not necessarily from sin, although that's probably true too, but there have been times where in my life.
I felt like I was being wracked, like in the medieval times, like stretched on a rack. This is so painful, like, and I, and I, like, I know this is for my good, I know that this is stretching me, I know that this is, this is possibly growth. Um, but I feel like I'm being wracked and tormented in, in this process.
And so I, I think of Alma the younger in those two days, having soul wrack or torment from all the things he's done, all the places he's been and all the people he's hurt, you know, or led astray. I think that's a human experience. I think that's part of the wilderness. It's part of AA. You're accountable for your past.
What you've done. And I think there, but for all of us, we can repent, but there we cannot and we do repent.
[00:57:39] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you, Aliah. Well, I just want to come off of what Aliah, because there is a word. In verses 28 and 29 that talk about this experience that he has by being forgiven and, you know, Aliah, you beautifully set this up by talking to us about being wracked with eternal torment and being pulled, like you said, a torture device.
I think that was the intention of the word that is used. They're just pulled in different directions. And in that pulling moment, anyone who's experienced that or felt that whatever it is you're going through, and I like how you said, it's not. It is sin, but it can be anything where you have felt just so pulled and it's a difficult racking moment.
In verse 28 and 29, he uses a word that in Hebrew is so awesome. So I'm going to read the verses and I'm going to tell you what to mark. So here we go. Verse 28. Nevertheless, after waiting through much tribulation, repenting nigh unto death. I mean, how about that? I mean, I've repented, but I don't know that I've repented to the point where I wanted to die.
I'll tell you a word in the next segment about that. It says, the Lord in mercy have seen fit to snatch me out of an everlasting burning. And I am born of God. My soul had been redeemed from the gall of bitterness and the bonds of iniquity. And I was in the darkest abyss, but now I behold this marvelous light of God.
My soul was wracked with eternal torment. But I am snatched and my soul is pained no more. Highlight the word snatch or snatched in verses 28 and 29. So in Hebrew, it's Natzal. It's spelled N A T Z A L. And I just put that next to this verse. And here's why you want to know this. In Hebrew, this means to save or to rescue.
But the thing that's so cool about it is that it is a Urgent. Get out quick. Keep you safe. Take you away. The image is a prey out of the mouth of animals like you just tear it away as fast as you can and get out quick. Now, I think that is the greatest thing I've ever heard for that verse of scripture that the Lord in mercy have seen to snatch me out of an everlasting burning.
And I am born of God as fast as possible. There's no timeframe. There's not like, well, you got to suffer for a couple of years. You're going to have to suffer. It is that quick. I was wracked with eternal torment, but I am snatched and my soul is pained no more. Isn't that beautiful?
And then when we read these, I almost got a little emotional because I was remembering, Oh, this really happened. This isn't some guy's, this isn't a story written by a really great playwright. This is someone's real life experience and he's telling us it's so doable to repent. It's hard. Just like Aliah said, you will be feel wrecked and know that the Lord will snatch you out of that experience and that you will be born of God.
I have a testimony of that. I have been born of God for sure. I have felt that, that saving, that healing in my moment that I talked to my mission president, I felt like I had been snatched out of an everlasting burning that I put myself through for 21 years because I was afraid to repent. And it was that fast for me.
I love it. I love it. So that's what stood out to me from his story.
[01:01:12] Jalyn Peterson: Well, the snatch too, like pulled him out quickly, but his soul was pain no more. It's not even just like you took him out and he was still kind of wading through some of the sorrow. It was like my soul was pained no more.
[01:01:25] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah,
[01:01:27] Jalyn Peterson: yeah, no more. I like that. Done. I just like how hard to he he just gets up and and goes to work, right? I mean a lot of us can you know, it's like yeah, of course he of course he did he you know Yeah, an angel come to him and he, you know, but he, but he really just, he, it says from that time forward, he went to teach the people and so did the sons of Mosiah and they went everywhere.
And it said they zealously went forth to kind of repair those, those damages that they had had done, you know, to the church and like, how humble to go from, Um, you know, I said before, he was very, he must have been a very charismatic guy because he was good at using words and kind of talking people, you know, out of it and was super smart at what he was saying.
And then to kind of have that whole, really becoming a new creature of how, how humble he had to be to go around and go like. Gosh, I was wrong. I was totally wrong like that. That's such humility to go confess It says confess all confess all their sins and publishing all the things that they had they had seen and heard right so It doesn't, we don't have to have an angel come down to have that done to us and, and like, like I said, like my, my knowledge and my spiritual experiences are, I don't have these big great things that happen like that, right?
It's very much line upon line. Um, And where I kind of learn and, and you know, have a new testimony of another new gospel principle as I go. But, um, and I think that's how it is for Mo most of us as we, as we move forward. So we might not always get that, but you know, to be that wholly shifted to just, I'm gonna go out and, and testify from now, you know, trying to repair what I did.
It's just, I mean, it's just the miracle story that it is. Right.
[01:03:41] Tammy Uzelac Hall: In fact, Jalyn, will you read verses 35 through 37?
[01:03:44] Jalyn Peterson: Mm hmm. Um, and they traveled throughout all the land of Zarahemla and among all the people who were under the ring of King Mosiah, zealously striving to repair all the injuries which they had done to the church, confessing all their sins and publishing all the things which they had seen and explaining the prophecies and the scriptures to all who desired to hear them.
Mm hmm. And thus they were instruments in the hands of God in bringing many to the knowledge of the truth, yea, to the knowledge of their Redeemer. And how blessed are they! For they did publish peace, they did publish good tidings of good, and they did declare unto the people that the Lord reigneth.
[01:04:20] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you.
Such a powerful ending for this just difficult and racking experience. I think it's incredible. And so in the next segment, then we're going to find out how it went for them and something they specifically asked King Mosiah for. We'll do that in the next segment.
Segment 6
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[01:04:49] Tammy Uzelac Hall: We are going to start segment six with a quote from Elder Holland, and I'm going to have Jalyn read it because Jalyn, you started us with this. It is from an April, 2012 general conference talk called the laborers in the vineyard. And here's what Elder Holland had to say.
[01:05:05] Jalyn Peterson: I do not know who in this vast audience today may need to hear the message of forgiveness inherent in this parable.
But however late you think you are, however many chances you think you have missed, however many mistakes you feel you have made, or talents you think you don't have, or however far from home and family and God you feel you have traveled, I testify that you have not traveled beyond the reach of the Divine love it is not possible for you to sink lower than the infinite light of Christ atonement shines
[01:05:37] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you, and you started
[01:05:39] Jalyn Peterson: that talk, too Well, because I remember him saying that like I I can hear elder Holland saying it when every time I read that I remember him giving that talk and how emphatic like you just you so felt that from him and just just that whole thing of like I That has always stuck with me, of, it is not possible for you to sink lower than the, than Christ's atonement, the depths that that reaches, it's not possible for you to sink that low.
And that was such, I mean, I don't know what's going on with me in 2012, but, um, I think I'm feeling a little like, geez, I'm a loser. I don't, I have no idea. But I remember that just really spoke so clearly to my heart of like, oh, you're right. Like you'd really have to get pretty deep down there, um, to be further than how far Christ Atonement reaches.
And I think that's what all these scriptures. Teach us, right? Alma and, and the sons of Mosiah and what they were doing and how. Christ saw fit to to send an angel down to stop their them in their progression and how you know the Lamanites how
You know wicked and idolatrous and bloodthirsty and all those descriptions We read about them and how we are still to this day still so concerned about bringing Every tribe of Israel, all of God's people, all of God's children, back to Him, that He really just wants us to return. He didn't send us down here to not return back home to Him.
He sent us down here because He wants us to come back. And so, that's why we do everything we do in the church, is because we are trying to Redeem God's children and to, to make sure everyone knows like that to me is the good news of the gospel of that, you know, unless you're really denying the Holy Ghost, after you have that knowledge, you, you have not sunk too low.
Yeah. Um, beyond the reach of the atonement.
[01:07:56] Tammy Uzelac Hall: In fact, look at Mosiah chapter 28. Just for some perspective, this is how low you could sink Mosiah chapter 28, verse four. And we just want to read the very first sentence. And this sentence is telling us about Alma, the younger and the sons of Mosiah Aliah. We read that verse for us.
[01:08:16] Aliah Hall: And thus did the Spirit of the Lord work upon them, for they were the very vilest of sinners.
[01:08:23] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Highlight that. I don't know any other scripture reference ever that calls someone the very vilest of sinners. The very vilest, the very vilest. The implication is no one was worse. The things they did, and yet they then will be some of the greatest missionaries.
And not only that, I love this scripture reference. If you put Alma chapter 48 verse 18 to the side of that, prove that the atonement of Jesus Christ works. Because if you turn to Alma chapter 48 verse 18, this is the verse of scripture about Captain Moroni and how awesome he is. Aliah, can you read that for us, please?
[01:09:04] Aliah Hall: Yes. Behold, he was a man like unto Ammon, the son of Mosiah, yea, even the other sons of Mosiah, yea, and also Elmah and his sons, for they, for they were all men of God.
[01:09:18] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I mean, to go from being the vilest of sinners to being a man of God, it works. There's just nowhere you could possibly go that the, I think it's beautiful that the light of Christ atonement cannot shine.
And so these young men will then go on a mission. They'll say to their King Mosiah, they'll go to their dad and say, can we go, let us go. We want to preach the good news to everybody. And Mosiah is nervous.
Yeah. To the Lamanites, to their
[01:09:47] Jalyn Peterson: enemies
[01:09:48] Tammy Uzelac Hall: who hate them, right? And then he, his dad is, Oh, I don't know.
I don't know. And we just love verse seven that the Lord says to Mosiah, let them go up for many shall believe on their words and they shall have eternal life. And I will deliver thy sons out of the hands of the Lamanites. So much beauty in these verses, Aliah, I love your, your face. Talk to me. What are the thoughts?
You look so pensive. What
[01:10:16] Aliah Hall: I was thinking, like, we just read, you know, previously about the scriptures about what the Lamanites were doing and they were like, and they were drinking people's blood and they were bloodthirstier, they were like this, they were all these terrible things. And then they were like, but Alma has obsessions with Mosiah where they were violets of sinners.
They hadn't killed anybody. They weren't drinking blood, they weren't having multiple wives, they weren't doing any of those things, but they were the vilest of sinners because they were leading other people away from friends.
I mean, that just seems like it, that's knowledge that I had, but like the awe, like I'm having like this awe moment of like, that's, that's it. These things are bad. Absolutely. Don't do that. Don't drink animal blood and don't kill people, but also, but that's those, those are consequences of our earthly body, not our eternal salvation.
And that, that's what the Lord is most worried about. Not our, not our bodies. Although that's important too, it's a great gift that we have. But our eternal salvation and exaltation and being able to return to him. That's what he called the most biological system. And
[01:11:46] Tammy Uzelac Hall: you go to verse 37 of Mosiah 27 and how blessed are they again, giving credit to God because of God.
[01:11:53] Aliah Hall: Well, I think about that too, because I think, you know, sometimes, sometimes I think it's Might be hard to relate to the scriptures. I know we're supposed to put ourselves in, in place of the scriptures that people really want to look, um, I think sometimes that can be a little bit harder.
Like, well, I'm not the prophet's son and I'm not trying to lead people within the church. You know, like, I don't know what this has to do with me, you know, um, I'm You know, I'm not the vilest of sinners, I'm not in, in any of that business. But there has definitely been times when, like, I felt like I was, like I, Jalen was like, I don't know what I was doing in 2012.
And I'm like, I know what I was doing. Um, and not that it wasn't bad stuff, but I felt like I had missed the boat in so many ways in my life. I was like, Oh, you know. When I came from my missionary, I moved to New York, which I probably shouldn't have done. I didn't do anything bad in New York, but I kind of knew, I was like, I don't know, that's where the Lord wanted me to be.
And I was like, that's where I want to be, so I'm going to go and do that. You know, I was 35, I wasn't married, I wasn't really dating anybody, I grew up with this girl that I've been dating for 3 years, and like I just was like, I have missed every milestone since like my mission onward, like I've just not hit one milestone.
[01:13:25] Jalyn Peterson: I'm still there. I'm still there, Aliyah. That's exactly what was happening to me in 2012 and in 2024. We're still there.
[01:13:34] Aliah Hall: So I'm like, I can't relate. I'm not leading people astray. I'm not murdering people. I think sometimes it's not that stuff. It's just like, there's this way of thinking. Doing the gospel, like the traditions of our fathers, like you get married, you go to BYU, get married, you live in a basem*nt, eat beans and have three kids.
As we go to graduate school and have five more, like there's a way to do this. And if you're not doing it that way, you miss the boat, you know? And you're just like, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm just out wandering in the wilderness. On my own, doing who knows what, why, and like, the Lord has forgotten about me because I suck.
[01:14:22] Tammy Uzelac Hall: When really you're just having your wilderness experience and, and God knew you before you knew you, you know, like, but I think
[01:14:31] Aliah Hall: we get time. Yes. And I think in the time of the Lord. So to read Elma's story, you're like, I'm not of the vilest of sinners. Like I'm doing okay. But I feel that way still, like, I feel like, oh, like the Lord has forgotten me, has forsaken me.
I am off the path. I am like, I don't even think I was actually in the wilderness. It was just like, it wasn't going the way everybody thought it should or that I thought it should be. In other words, I don't like, oh yeah. Like, you're okay. You have not sunken below the atonement of Christ just because you're 35 and not married.
[01:15:11] Jalyn Peterson: Well, and that's why I love that quote from Elder Holland too, because it's like you haven't missed the boat on anything. Whatever talents you don't think you have, whatever life experience you don't think you have yet. Like it's all in due time of the Lord, but you know, you're right. Very violent to sinners.
But I do wonder now when I read that just now of like, Gosh, I hope there are, there's probably actions I've done where maybe I've, you know, heaven forbid, I've led other people to question their own testimony, right? In some small way, or even in a big way of like, what have I done that have, have made people think about, is the church true?
Or is this principle true? Or is this, you know, like, because if it, if it is a very vitalist thing you can do. Um, I really, yeah, I really hope I'm not doing that even in some small way. Has an angel come to visit you yet? I mean, not yet. Not yet, but I don't.
[01:16:19] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Good news then. According , according to Aliah, that's good news. You're still good. It is
[01:16:22] Aliah Hall: good news. Wellness is not. Yeah. As long as we're together. No angel reason to you. You're pretty much on the middle of the path. You're not so good. You're going to be asked to do something really hard and you're not so bad that
[01:16:35] Jalyn Peterson: yeah, I think the minute you stop questioning that you stop questioning whether you're so good or so bad.
I think that's when you're in big trouble. If you're like, just like the minute I start thinking like, nah, I'm fine. Like that's a problem. That's a problem. True.
[01:16:57] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, thank you ladies. That was such a great discussion. That's it. That's the end of our episode. I loved it, . Love it. So good. Everything you shared was so insightful and, and it's just cool because this every time, I love that scripture that today as we discuss these truths, that's what's neat.
It's just these little moments. It's not traditions, it is faith. And so I am super grateful for this, this discussion that we've had. So take a minute and gather your thoughts. And what are your takeaways?
[01:17:28] Aliah Hall: And I think for me, my takeaway was. Better understanding of that word snatched. That's a word that's re emerged in, in the young folks vocabulary.
Snatched is to be like looking real good. So whenever I read it, I'm like, you know, I'm just like looking real good. But I like that, like to be, to be rescued in a hurry. You know, that's That's really beautiful. And I, and I can think of times when I've been snatched and where and afterwards that something that seemed awful and terrible has, has been something that brought me so much joy and that my heart was at peace, my soul was at peace.
[01:18:16] Tammy Uzelac Hall: That's a good one. Thank you, Aliah. Thank you.
[01:18:20] Jalyn Peterson: Um, mine is just the overall You know kind of along with that snatched about how you know I was reading a little bit before that it says they were after waiting waiting through much tribulation You know in the darkest of abyss and bonds of iniquity and to me that just always Like if you're wading through it, it seems like that takes forever, right?
And it feels like that, right? When we're in those those periods it just it feels like forever, but how quickly The Lord can come in and snatch you out, how quickly the Lord can rescue you, and even if you are the very vilest of sinners, um, you are still under the merciful watch of the Lord who can quickly come in and rescue.
You're still available for some snatching. Still available for snatching. Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely.
[01:19:19] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah, for sure. Um, Aliah, I loved it when you taught us, he was mine before he was yours. What a great reminder. Like I got this. Yeah. So I thought that was really cool and I thought of that several times as you guys were sharing stories and talking like, Oh yeah, he's, he's been watching you this whole time.
And, and then I thought of you, Jalyn, because. That line, which you talked about at the very beginning, it is not possible for you to sink lower than the infinite light of Christ atonement shines. And we autumn, I automatically apply it to sin and repentance. But then when a Leo was talking and I applied it to you, we know that the atonement is far beyond sin.
It's sorrow, it's sadness, it's loneliness. It's any feeling we've ever felt. And that I just think there's always hope. And Jalyn's getting married. Everybody. I'm saying it right now. Go, the light here is going to shine because the atonement can reach Jalin and uh, yeah, someone if can reach down this bar, anyone else can be snatched too.
I just think that's true. I'm like, I think it reaches the Jalyn's of the world who just have those moments and Aliah shared how it reached her over 35 and married and just, I think that the beauty of that. Word atone, Christ atonement is far beyond sin, like I, yeah, but we have been racked with eternal torment and being single can be racking and well,
[01:20:48] Jalyn Peterson: and having a baby in the NICU for 10 months
[01:20:53] Aliah Hall: or not having a baby.
[01:20:55] Jalyn Peterson: Yeah. Yes.
[01:20:56] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah. Right. Yeah. But then I'll just remember, but we are so, we are so blessed. We're so blessed. Yeah. We'll just cut it to God and all of it. So bless. Okay. I love you guys. Thanks ladies. It was good.
[01:21:09] Jalyn Peterson: Love you too. Thanks ladies. Have a good night.
[01:21:11] Tammy Uzelac Hall: . Well, what was your takeaway? Oh my gosh. I really want you to tell me what you learned from this episode.
This was so much fun. It was such a good discussion. I love these friends. I love doing this. Okay. Well go to our Facebook or Instagram and share what you've learned. And then at the end of the week, we usually ask a question from this episode. So comment on the post that relates to this lesson and share your thoughts.
You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode at ldsliving. com slash Sunday on Monday. And it's not a bad idea to go there anyway. It's where we're going to have links to all the references as well as a transcript of this whole discussion. So go check it out.
The Sunday on Monday study group is a desert bookshelf plus original brought to you by LDS living. It's written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac hall. And today are so fantastic. Study group participants were Aliah Hall and Jalyn Peterson. And you can find more information about my friends at LDS living.
com slash Sunday on Monday. Our podcast is produced by Cole Wissinger and me. It is edited and mixed by Cole Wissinger and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. Thanks for being here. We'll see you next week. And please remember. Oh, please remember that you are God's favorite.
